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In English, please

isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
editado enero 2012 en Taller de Prosa
Abro este tema aquí porque no sé muy bien dónde colocarlo. Si creéis que está mejor en otro sitio pues hacemos mudanza y ya está. Ya le daremos publicidad por el foro.

Hace tiempo habíamos hablado de que con tanto inglés-parlante y tanto aprendiz por el foro estaría bien tener un pequeño espacio en ese idioma. Creo que puede ser útil para todos, ya que nos puede servir para comentar dudas de libros que estemos leyendo en inglés -sobre todo si es de siglos pasados- o consultar acerca de la mejor manera de escribir alguna frase de textos propios que queramos traducir al inglés.

Y es que ya sabemos que no es lo mismo el inglés británico que el americano, y que no habla igual alguien que lee un discurso en una reunión de trabajo en Londres que el que pide una pinta de cerveza en la taberna de un puebo irlandés.

Well, I hope that this new subject can be usefull for all of us.
«13

Comentarios

  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    No podría más que estar de acuerdo con mi colega Texas. Y digo ésto a sabiendas de que soy el autor del único hilo que aparece en Temas Relacionados.
    De todas formas, yo, humildemente, siendo bilingüe de inglés, tanto si finalmente se decide abrir tal sección, estoy a vuestra entera disposición en tanto mi capacidad me lo permita, colegas :)[ocultar](Aunque me siento terrible por no haber podido ayudar a nuestra colega sansacarioca)[/ocultar].
    Además, comprendo el punto de mantener el Foro como mayoritariamente hispano-hablante, dado que es Foro de Literatura y no Literature Forum.
    Cierto es que no existe una traducción literal, y que finalmente decidí postear en ambos idiomas.
    Finalmente, cualquiera sea la decisión, estaré satisfecho de aceptarla y de poder hacer de este Foro una fuente útil y un hogar para todos.
    ____________________________________________

    I couldn't agree more with my colleague here, Texas. And I feel this way on the account that I authored the only thread to appear on Related Subjects.
    Anyway, being bilingual with English, whether such section will finally be allowed or not, I'm humbly at your entire disposition as long as my capacities allow me, colleagues :) [ocultar](Although I'm terribly sorry that I couldn't help our colleague sansacarioca)[/ocultar].
    Furthermore, I can see the point in keeping this Forum majorly Spanish-speaking, since it's Foro de Literatura and not Literature Forum.
    It is true, nevertheless, that something such as literal translations does not exist, and that I ultimately chose to post in both languages.
    Finally, whatever the decission will be, I'll be glad to comit myself with it and help making this Forum a useful source and home for everyone.
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Gracias, Menzies, lo he propuesto sólo como herramienta. Sabemos que en literatura, las traducciones son muy importantes y algunas veces una mala traducción puede hacer que dejes el libro otra vez sobre el estante, olvidándolo. La gente que sabe leer en inglés prefiere leer la versión original, pero eso es a menudo un poco difícil si el libro fue escrito, por ejemplo, en el siglo 19. Palabras y expresiones antiguas dificultan el placer de leer.

    Aquí tenemos un pequeño rincón inglés para comentar no sólo las dudas sino también el libro. Si todo el mundo está de acuerdo, comencemos pues.

    Thanks, Menzies, I've proposed it only as a tool. We know that in literature, the translations are very important and sometimes a bad translation can make you to put the book again on the shelf forgetting it. People who can read English prefer reading the original version, but that´s often a little bit difficult if the book was written, for example, in the 19th century. Old words and expressions make difficult the pleasure of reading.

    Here we have a little English corner to comment not only the doubts but also the book. If everybody agree, then let's begin.

    PD: I know that my english is not perfect, so you can correct me :o;)
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    En primer lugar, querida Texas, tu inglés es impecable.
    En segundo lugar, tienes toda la razón. Yo tengo la suerte de poder leer en distintos idiomas. Y desde que aprendí cada uno decidí no leer más escritos traducidos de ese idioma, y definitivamente no en mi lengua materna. Sin embargo, con frecuencia me doy cuenta qde ue el determinado conocimiento que pueda tener de cualquier idioma tiene en todo caso ciertas limitaciones que he preferido ignorar. Por ejemplo, recientemente intenté leer, para mi desesperación, "Cien Años de Soledad". Ni que decir tiene que fui incapaz de ir más allá del primer capítulo. Esto es debido principalmente a mi limitado conocimiento del Español, ya que yo soy familiar con la variedad Castellana sólamente, así que es en esa variedad en la que me expreso, pero también encuentro cierta dificultad en comprender otras variedades.

    De cualquier manera, soy un entusiasta y a veces voraz lector. A propósito de la Literatura Inglesa, me encuentro muy a gusto con autores como Jane Austen, Thomas Hardy o Henry James entre otros. Y digo esto para comentar lo que se ha llegado a llamar "Inglés Estándar", esto es, una variedad del Inglés que casi todos los anglo-parlantes, ya sean nativos o no, puedan entender con poca o ninguna dificultad. Y aún así, conozco personas que encuentran difícil leer a estos autores.
    En conclusión, lo que intento decir es que, en caso de que finalmente no se aprobara una sección en Inglés, propongo que se cree un Club de Lectura en Inglés. En tal club, la lectura no sólo estaría centrada en los aspecto literarios, sino tambien en cuestiones relacionadas con el propio idioma en que se ha escrito la novela, y animar y facilitar una mayor comprensión de cualquier obra escrita en Inglés.
    No sé si he hecho mi argumento suficientemente claro, pero espero que sí, y que tal propuesta recibirá una cálida acogida
    _________________________


    Firstly, dear Texas, your english is excellent.
    Secondly, you're totally right. I'm lucky to be able to read in a number of different languages. And ever since I learnt each I decided not to read any more works translated from that language, and definitely not into my mother tongue. Nevertheless, frequently I realise that the certain knowledge I might have of a given language has however certain limitations I deliberately chose to ignore. For instance, I recently tried to read, much to my despair, "One Hundred Years of Solitude". Needless to say I couldn't go any further than the first chapter. This is mainly due to my extremely limited knowledge of the Spanish language, since I'm familiar with the Castilian variety only, and as such not only I express myself in such variety, but also find a certain difficulty in understanding other varieties.

    One way or the other, I'm a keen and sometimes voracious reader. Concerning Literature in English, I find myself really comfortable with the likes of Jane Austen, Thomas Hardy and Henry James among others. And this is to praise the use of what's been ultimately called "Standard English", that's to say, a variety of English that almost all speakers of English, whether they're native or not, would comprehend finding little or no difficulty at all. And even then, I find people who find rather difficult to read such authors.
    Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that, in case an English speaking section wasn't finally allowed, I propose an English Book Club was created. In such club, reading should not only be centred on literary issues, but also on subjects related to the very language the novel is written in, and encourage and help a fully understandable reading of any given work written in English.
    I don't know if I made my point clear enough, but I hope I did, and that such a proposal will receive a warm welcome.
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Primero, gracias por tus palabras pero creo que mi inglés es muy simple. Gramaticalmente correcto, si, pero simple. Estoy intentando recuperar mi nivel alto cada día pero todo lleva su tiempo.

    En los grupos de lectura ya hemos tenido un caso como el que dices, Menzies, con Dubliners, y estuvo muy muy bien por que sirvió de ayuda para comprender algunas anticuadas expresiones (lástima que Odmaldi borrase todos sus post porque sus aportaciones eran estupendas):
    http://www.forodeliteratura.com/showthread.php?t=11267

    Por eso creo que sería interesante tener este rincón. Supongo que si alguien vuelve a proponer un libro en inglés en el grupo de lectura tendrá buena acogida.

    PD: now is late, so I will write in English other day :o
  • ShaiantiShaianti Fray Luis de León XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Dear Texas, thanks for your proposal which I find useful and creative. I'll be glad to give my support whenever needed. Learning (and teaching)languages has been one of my passions throughout all my life. :)
  • GileblitGileblit Fernando de Rojas s.XV
    editado octubre 2010
    Sería genial poder proponer un libro para leer en grupo en inglés. Yo estoy estudiando traducción e interpretación y ya he leído algún libro (moderno), y creo que sería una oportunidad muy buena para todos los que tengan un buen nivel de mejorar sus capacidades en este idoma.

    Pd: a pesar de querer dedicarme a la traducción literaria, sé que está muy limitada, es realmente difícil hacer una buena traducción de una obra. (De aquí el famoso tópico Traduttore-Traditore, el traductor es un traidor). Como decía mi profesora de lingüística, hay que decidir entre si hacerla bella infiel o fea fiel.

    It would be really wonderful to choose a book for some people so as to be read in english. I'm studing translation and interpretation so I've read some books in modern english ya. Furthermore, I think that it would be a good chance for people who have a good level in english to improve their skills.

    Pd: even when I want to work in literary translation, I know that it is so limited and that it's really difficult to make a good translation in these terms. (Dealing with this there's an italian topic , traduttore-traditore, the translatos is a traitor). As my linguistics teacher usually says, sometimes you have to choose: you will make it beautiful and untrue, or ugly and loyal?

    Ppd: sorry for my english, I'm a bit late so I wrote this as fast as possible. :D
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Thanks a lot, Shai and Gileblit, for your opinion and for your future help. I hope that more people join us in order to begin with a book as soon as possible ;)
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Bueno, parece ser que hemos conseguido cierto apoyo a la propuesta. Tanto la sección dedicada al Inglés como el Club de Lectura me parecen dos ideas excelentes. Sólo espero que los Bibliotecarios acojan la propuesta de igual manera, y no como un acto de Sedición en contra de los miembros Hispano hablantes, sobretodo teniendo en cuenta que el único prerequisito para participar en este Foro es un cierto conocimiento de la lengua Española.
    De todas formas, personalmente me gustaría presentar tal sección, sección aún pendiente de creación, como una sección dedicada a la lengua Inglesa y a todos los aspectos que puedan la rodean, pero en ningún caso limitada a los hablantes del Inglés, de la misma manera que la ya establecida sección de Ciencia no está restringida para Científicos exclusivamente. Todo, por supuesto, en el espíritu de agrandar este querido Foro.
    ______________________________

    Well, it appears to me that we've gathered some support to the proposal. Both the English dedicated section and the Book Club are excelent ideas in my opinion. I only hope that the Librarians welcome such proposal as warmly as we do, and not as an act of Sedition against the Spanish speaking members, especially on the account that the only prerequisite to participate in this Forum is a certain knowledge of the Spanish language.
    However, personally speaking, I would like to present such section, yet still to be prefigured, as a section dedicated to the English language and as many topics around it as they may arise, but in no case limited to English speakers, just like the well established Scientific section is in no case restricted for Scientists only. All, of course, in a spirit to enlarge this beloved Forum.
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Y ahora os responderé ordenadamente:
    Texas, tu Inglés es perfecto. Simple, puede ser, pero la simpleza no es signo de imperfección. Creo que es un mito aquello de que un amplio léxico activo es signo de un mayor conocimiento de cualquier idima. Todos usamos tantos términos como necesitamos para comunicarnos de manera acertada. En caso de que hubieras encontrado un concepto o una idea fundamental, sin contar aquellas cque son propias de una cultura en concreto, que no pudieras expresar, entonces hablaríamos de limitaciones, pero por ahora has expuesto tus opiniones en la presente discusión con claridad y objetividad, y hasta ahora, me niego a creer que hayas tenido ninguna otra limitación para expresarte.
    Dubliners, junto con Un Retrato del Artista Adolescente y Ulysses son de mis obras favoritas de siempre. He leído Dubliners varias veces, y aún así tengo que reconocer que se podría considerar de una lectura compleja- comentando que la leísteis con poca o ninguna duficultad estás poniendo en evidencia el nivel alto de Inglés entre los miembros del Foro.

    Shaianti, no podrías hacerte una idea de cuánto te respeto por lo que has dicho. La enseñanza me parece frustrante, lo cual es en sí frustrante, y admiro enormemente a aquellos que hacen de la enseñanza no sólo una ocupación sino una labor apasionada.

    Y respecto a un asunto en concreto, Gileblit, yo apoyo testarudamente de la traducción "fea y leal". La belleza como tal, me parece que compete a los poetas. Debe comentar que yo también trabajo como traductor, y en general suelo tratar de encontrar el sinónimo más adecuado siempre y cuando el significado original permanezca intacto. Aparte de eso, me planteo mi trabajo reconociendo humildemente que las palabras de un determinado autor no están hechas para que yo las cambie. En my opinión, los traductores no son poetas, ni autores- somos jueces. Tras leer un texto, queda a nuestro juicio elegir una traducción como la más apropiada. Pero por mi parte, yo prefiero una traducción más basada en los conceptos, que en la literalidad o en la poética. Eres libre de elegir que traducción se adapta mejor a tus opiniones. Creo que entonces es cuando podemos reconocer y hablar propiamente de traductores.
    ___________________________


    And now I would like to address to all of you in order:
    Texas, your English is perfect. It may be simple, maybe, but simplicity does not imply imperfection. I believe it's a misconception that a large active vocabulary is a sign of a deeper knowledge of any language. We all use as many terms as we need in order to communicate properly. In case you found a concept or a fundamental notion, other than those characteristic of a determinate culture, that you couldn't express, then you would be facing limitations, but as for now you've presented your views in the present discussion with clarity and objectivity, and up until now, I refuse to believe you had any limitation whatsoever to express yourself.
    Dubliners, together with A Portrait of the Artist As A Young Man and Ulysses are among my favourite works of all time. I've read Dubliners several times, and yet I have to admit it could be regarded as a difficult lecture- by admitting you went through it with little or no difficulty you're acknowledging the high level in English among the members of this Forum.

    Shaianti, you couldn't possibly imagine how much I respect you for what you just said. I find teaching really frustrating, much to my frustration, and I strongly admire those who make of teaching not only an area of expertise but also a passionate task.

    And regarding one specific idea, Gileblit, I'm a stubborn advocate of "ugly and loyal" translation. Beauty, in itself, I think is the competence of poets. I must admit I'm myself a bit of a translator, and I usually try to find an appropriate synonym so long as the original meaning remains intact. Other than that, I start my job by humbly acquaiting that a certain author's words are not for me to try to change them. In my opinion, translators are not poets, nor authors- we are judges. Upon reading a text, it is according to our judgement that we choose a specific transation as most suitable. But as for me, I prefer a non literal, non poetical translation based more on concepts. You are free to judge which tranlations suits your criteria best. That's when we can properly say and respect translators.
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    hi everyone, i like the idea and altough i haven't been using my english for a couple of months now (since i've stopped working in call centers), i'm sure i can be of help, after all, most of the books i've ever read have been in english. I'm familliar with american and british slangs and sayings so i can probably help you there. or in any case, if i dont know one, i'll research it

    hola a todos, me gusta la idea y aunque no he estado usando mi ingles por algunos meses (desde que deje de trabajar en los callcenters), estoy seguro que puedo servir de algo, despues de todo, casi todos los libros que he leido han sido en ingles. soy familiar con la jerga y los dichos americanos y britanicos así que probablemente puedo ayudarlos en eso. aunque en cualquier caso, si no se alguno, lo investigare.
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Thanks for join us, Alverik. I've worked in call center, too, but in German department for years, that's why my English is very "rusty" and when I'm speaking I say yet some words in German (and I teach English :o).

    Menzies, if we wait for the librarians... :rolleyes: Let's do it, breaking the rules (song of Judas Priest :D)

    In my opinion, we are ready to start. Let's decide what book will be the first one. Perhaps it would be better to begin with a not old book because of the language, but I really don't mind if the first is, for example, from Jane Austen. Stephen King could also be an option. As I said, I don't mind the book, I only want to begin :)

    PD: Is there a difference between "start" and "begin"? Have I used them properly? Thanks.
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    ummm, i'm not proud to say i've mostly read phantasy, so i'm not that familliar with many writters, but if we are talking about something easy to read, we could probably start with harry potter... which is very simple, if you exclude the british slang which isn't that hard to learn (though im sure not many will want that one). we could also read the name of the wind which also uses a very simple language (though, ways better). or the ever great Hemingway.

    The only books i've got from Stephen King are the dark tower series, i'm not sure when he wrote them, but in them his writing is grammatically simple, altough he uses some somewhat complicated words at times (stolidly for expample), but should be alright.

    in any case, if someone doesnt mind reading them in a pc, i can get you some ebooks through msn, i've got:

    -Stephen King - Dark tower series - 7 books.
    -J.K. Rowling - Harry potter series - 7 books + fantastic beasts and where to find them + Quidditch through the ages.
    - C.S. Lewis - The chronicles of narnia - collencion 7 in one.
    - Patrick Rothfuss - The name of the wind
    - J.R.R. Tolkien - Collection (The hobbit + The lord of the rings) + The Silmarillion.
    - Christopher paolini - Eragon
    - Stephenie Meyer - Twilight Series (my sister passed them to me, never read more than 3 pages... but i guess there's different tastes out there...)
    - George R.R. Martin - A Song of Ice and Fire - the 4 books so far.
    - Steven Erikson - Malazan Saga - 9 books too many to write (first book scan a bit buggy, havent checked all of them yet though)
    - Ernest Hemingway - A Farewell to Arms, A Moveable Feast, Death in the Afternoon, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Sun Also Rises, The Old Man and the Sea (awesome storytelling).
    - Edgar Allan Poe - i have a lot of his short stories and the like but theyre in a weird html, website fashion, so is a folder, not a regular pdf or doc.

    **
    PD: you used them well, (altough theres some cases in which they do differ).

    these are the only issues i see in your writing. In the first phrase it should be thanks for "joining" us (el gerundio es más ampliamente usado en ingles que en español), then yet is mostly used at the beggining or the end of a pharse so it'd sound better to use "still", and also you tend to forget the The, A or An preceding nouns and pronouns sometimes (which is a pretty common mistake so no worries),

    Besides those issues its pretty good english.

    PD2: hope i was not too strict...
    **
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    My vote is for Edgar Allan Poe. Perhaps he's not the easiest to read, but I like him :)
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    alright, guess those are short enough to be posted, maybe, at least some of the poems are, i think i got the raven, nah, im sure i have it :rolleyes:, its the very first thing i read when i went looking for his works. the black cat was a pretty good short story, ummm so, how are we gonna do it then? everyone will search for the text by themselves, or shall i send you the folder with all of them, or shall i just post the poem or the story here???
  • GileblitGileblit Fernando de Rojas s.XV
    editado octubre 2010
    If you want to read it online: http://classiclit.about.com/od/blackcatedgarallanpoe/a/blackcat_eapoe.htm

    If you prefer to have the PDF: http://www.feedbooks.com/book/759 (just press "PDF" and it will appear. Then you just have to choose if you want to save it or just to read it. ;)

    I hope this was useful :)

    Pd: to comment it, we shall make a new topic or we just should write here?

    *Menzies: is good to know that there's another translator around here! :D I've a question: is it as amazing as it seems to me now, while I'm studying? (I must say that I'm not tranlating anything yet, but I still love what I'm learning :) )
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    you mean the story? you bet it is, he was a top notch writter, if not the very best story teller (for short stories) there was at the time, (actually the best to some people).

    altough i must say that, by now, his way of speaking is out o date :p, altough it's still super cool, and the best part is that whenever you read his stories is like going through a little window to the past (as people actually used to speak like that in the past, or at least the high class or the very aducated)

    (not to mention how increadible it sounds, although most english writters rarely depended or depend on "showing" in their descriptions)
  • ShaiantiShaianti Fray Luis de León XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Gileblit, Alverik: you've made a great job. I understand the reading chosen is Poe's Black Cat? Otherways I would have voted for Hemingway's short stories, clean and clear language, easy to read and to understand.
    Let me know the final choice, I'm open to any, but need link or other document (pdf, etc).
    I could also suggest some poetry (i.e. Jane Boyle, Tennyson, not too classical, but modern English), it's easiest for beginners. As well as some music with words of songs? :)
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    In my opinion Poe is a top choice! He's a classic, he's one of my favourite american authors and all he wrote was poems and shorts stories (I'd suggest all of you to read "The Philosophy of Composition" which is among the best literary criticism pieces I've ever read). However, I must say that, personally, appart from Master Poe and few others, I would not support the idea of building a reading list on fantasy books mainly. I quite disagree it's language might be useful and most times it is an inside-the-book vocabulary which I reckon would not help any of us if we want to make any progress. And take for instance Tolkien- I quite respect him as an author, but I think we'll all agree his style is nearly Biblical.
    Personally I'd start with a few classic authors- Poe seems a fantastic choice to me, then maybe some of Dickens, probably Austen, James (whose style is easier than one might expect), and then I think we could move a step further onto other authors. Also I didn't found Woolf to have a complicate style at all, or even the Brontë sisters.

    I think Shaianti made a good point- we could alternate between poetry and prose, what do you say? If we finally begin with "The Black Cat", then the next reading could be a prose text, and then swap to a poetic one again, and so on. What do you say?

    Yeah, Gileblit, for me it isn't a thrilling job, but it is a very nice job indeed, save for a couple times it becomes a bit rather stressful. Plus, you know, working at home is always good. :) As for now, keep on your studies and eventually you'll find what suits you best. I started to translate, professionally I mean, to pay for my studies when I started at the University, as doing so not only I would be paying my studies and so, but also somehow doing homework. I eventually liked it, and I find it really easy for me, so I'd say it quite suits me. You should try and see whether it suits YOU or not, mate!:)
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    alright, i dont mind neither, and altough i'm not very used to poetry i dont mind reading it. altough we should wait until everyone gives the thumbs up.

    also i'd recommend Hemingway too as the next reading -after the poetry you mention if everyone agrees. His books are great and would probably help everyone a lot.

    ...and well a bit off the topic, about what you said about the fantasy books, its true that many arent very well written, like harry potter is too plain and tolkien is too hard and unnatural (to modern standards) in his dialogs, but theres some i've found to be pretty well written, to be exact the song of ice and fire is one of the best written books ive ever read in english (adventure style), you'd be surprised to know (maybe :p) that books like harry potter arent even in the first 10 or 20 books in the "best fantasy books" in many websites, and tolkien just gets to 4th or 5th because he made a revolution in the old school fantasy, (almost all fantasy now is based on his stuff, or at least the regular stuff) but anyways. sometime we could probably give it a try to a chapter or two, i mean i doubt all you'll ever translate will be plain speach/text, what if you happen to get one and dont understand it because you never really cared about it ;) (i mean many games, screen plays for tv and movies, and theater still use those old themes)

    also, not to be rude, but many translations from english to spanish, just suck.... for example, and altough i dont like the book (cause the writing is simple and the story is just plain) i had in my hands an spanish version of eragon, and to be truthfull, its terrible, its even worse than the real deal! :p, the actual book had some style, altough thin but ok for a 15 year old, and the translation took it off. but in short, some books which in spanish seemed bad are worth a shot in english, (or more like, in the original language they were written.)
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Alverik escribió : »
    In the first phrase it should be thanks for "joining" us (el gerundio es más ampliamente usado en ingles que en español),
    I know it, but I forget it :o I use to be careful with that things, but sometimes...

    then yet is mostly used at the beggining or the end of a pharse so it'd sound better to use "still",
    When I wrote it, I had a stupid basic doubt about that. It sounded bad written so, but I didn't verify it. I realize that I have a lot of stupid BASIC mistakes/doubts and that annoys me a lot.

    and also you tend to forget the The, A or An preceding nouns and pronouns sometimes (which is a pretty common mistake so no worries),
    Please, where? I can't find that mistake and I didn't know about it.

    PD2: hope i was not too strict...

    You've been helpful. Thanks for remarking my mistakes. It's the only -and the better- way to improve. As you can see, I'm a good pupil :D

    I agree with Poe -as I said-, no matter the title o titles. The only book I read of Heminway was "the old man and the sea" but in Spanish when I was a teenager (yesterday :rolleyes::p), so it's a good second option. About the poetry... I don't like it very much but I don't mind reading it if everyone agrees.

    Thanks for the links. I'll try to get the books in the library but if not, we all have the books in those links.

    I think it should be better to open a new subject (or thread) in the corresponding place in the forum -"grupos de lectura"- in the same way as the other groups and books. So when we agree with the first title, let's go there to begin with.

    Anyway, how much time have we to read the book? A week, a month? Do we comment when everyone ended or can we comment during the reading?
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    Dont worry, when i posted my answer that time, i had only checked your last post for mistakes :p, that specific mistake is only there, and just once, and if your not too strict it doenst even matter, you said: "...but in German department" the ultra correct way should be "but in the german department", so no worries.

    i've checked the rest of your posts and the only other mistakes are:

    "If everybody agree, then..." i think it should be "If everybody agrees, then..."

    "a bad translation can make you to put the book again..." dont know, but it sounds kinda weird, would be best as "a bad translation can make you put the book again..."

    also "the better way" as a single short phrase sounds kinda weird too, best say "the best way" :p, altough if you are comparing, like "better than...**", or if its in a long phrase like "a better way to...**" it sounds ok.

    PD: i apologise in advance if sometimes i don't explain exactly why something sounds queer to me, but like most everything i've ever learnt (cause of the crappy education i had in my youth) i've learnt it by myself, i didn't even had a dictionary for the most part :p, and ended up learning english like you learn spanish, like when you learn a dog is a dog, you relate the word with the thing, not the translation :rolleyes:, so sometimes i end up taking a moment to think for the spanish word (instead of the other way around)

    but anyways, as i said before, i'm cool with whatever. we can even read books with older speaches as i'm kinda used to them, as fantasy books are my favorites.

    oh and by the way, doing research is one of my fortes, so if you ever need help in a research for a story you can count on me if you like.

    PD2: yeah i had it in a "mini book/hand book" version in spanish too (but i mean just size, it didn't really cut anything from the story), but it can't compare to the original version.
  • GileblitGileblit Fernando de Rojas s.XV
    editado octubre 2010
    I don't know how the lecture groups work, I've never been in one, but I think that we should decide a tittle and then a date, for example, 10 days from now. Then somebody opens the thread and we all comment how was it. (Both from a literary and language points)

    About what text, well, I really don't mind, I've never read The black cat nor Hemmingway, so I don't know they're styles... But I agree with Texas: we should choose an "easy" book to begin. In that way we can take contact with english speech, and then we could choose more difficult texts, bacause I guess that not everybody reads usually in english, as Menzies or I do.

    What are we doing, then? Votation to choose the text?

    a- The black cat by E.A.Poe
    b- The old man and the sea by Hemmingway

    Make your choice! :)

    About fantatic literature: Alverik, it's true, some translations are really bad, I've found errors such as "sus lilas ojos" in several fantasy books, but, fortunately, this is not so usual. For example, A song of ice and fire has a good tranlation, and so does Elric of Melniboné and Geralt of Rivia as I can remember just now. ;) I hope you won't have to say the same about my future translations, because I really would be so happy if my job was translating fantasy books. :D
  • AlverikAlverik Pedro Abad s.XII
    editado octubre 2010
    ...well i love the black cat, but i love the old man and the sea even more, plus it'll be easier for everyone to read.

    PD: although its a lot longer...
  • isabel veigaisabel veiga Garcilaso de la Vega XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Alverik, I'm embarrased :o but happy. All they are mistakes of first course and I finished my 5 courses in the School of Languages years ago!!! Thank goodnes that I prepare my classes carefully and I don't have those mistakes when I'm teaching.

    With regard to the book, I maintain my opinion about Poe to begin with. It's not a long story so we can read it in a week or in ten days. In any case, both Poe and Hemingway are the perfect writers to start our reading-group. They will give us a touch of glamour from the beginning :D
  • MalubeMalube San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    :eek:
    I have just arrived here and it's amazing. I will force myself to read you everyday if possible to refresh my english :).
    I will not take part in the reading club (no way, I already tried to follow the one about Dubliners and it was impossible), but my suggestion is to open a new thread with the book selected and its comments, and leave this one to talk about the way its going, new readings and so.
    Congratulations for the smart idea! And good luck with the reading club, it takes a time.
    Someone said that he had never participated in a reading club an doesn't know how it works. Maybe reading the one about Dubliners will help, eventhouhg it ended abruptly :o.
    I apologize for coming with no invitation and for my english, but this is going to be a good help for the non-english speaking mates.
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Right. First things first.

    Alverik, fortunately, I'm still able to choose what to translate, and although I've read quite a few fantasy works and been offered to translate fantasy literature a couple times, I'm not really interested. No offence. And by the way, I didn't say or ever thought fantasy literature was unnatural- I suggest you to read Finnegan's Wake. I finfished the book understanding every single word and nevertheless being completely unable to say what was all about.
    Plus, yeah, you tell me about it. I'm more than used to crappy translations, but then again, that's what somehow encouraged me to try my hardest to tranlate properly. No need to say, I have my limitations, quite a lot, actually. A few months ago I was asked to translate Pan Tadeusz for an independent spanish publishing house- ultimately I had to give in as I realised I didn't know that much Spanish. But on the other hand, I consider translations, and so translators, to be a fundamental point for everyone, even if they do not know how much. I'm the only person in my class to have read Flaubert's actual words, yet everyone seems to be more or less acquainted with Madame Bovary. I think it's amazing that, although we read two different works, we could all feel moved by such a magnificent novel, and one couldn't actually say how much is Flaubert's doing and how much is translators'. But I believe all tranlations should be revised from time to time, to check whether they're up to date or not.

    I still maintain my opinion of alternating between poetry and prose. Thus, starting with a poem like The Black Cat and then moving onto Hemingway would be fine to me. And after Hemingway, anew piece of poetry should be read, and so on.

    Texas, there's nothing you should be embarrassed about- let's just pretend we're all human and we often make mistakes. I make lots of mistakes in Spanish especially if I'm talking with someone with a strong foreign accent. I don't know what happens then, but my mind just gets switched off. And then all my different horrible accents just come to surface all of a sudden, hahahaha. Thank God there's people like Alverik ready to point out our mistakes. Otherwise, we'd just carry on.

    And Gileblit, I'm sure you'll just be an ace translator, mate ;). Just don't worry. Do it your own way. Or find your way to do it.:cool:
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Are you being serious Malube?
    I strongly support the idea of refreshing one's English (yours in this case)- not that you had to ;).
    Yeah, I got that Dubliners Book Club checked and I found it to have been quite slow, am I wrong?
    All congratulations should be delivered to the Great Texas, and the cleverness of her, hahaha. And thanks, by the way.
    But, now I should be more serious and tell you to never ever apologise for peeking into any of the threads. There's no shut doors here, so there's no need for invitations. And you're more than welcome among us, not only because of how and who you are, and who you are to some of us, but also because your English is flawless- maybe not flamboyant, but flawless nevertheless. It would be great if you could join us, in any of our possible future activities. You'll always be more than welcome Ms Querol.
  • MalubeMalube San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    The Dubliners Club was quite slow. We were all busy and appeared rearly, and personaly when following that kind of Club I feel more motivated commenting a paperback, I mean not short stories that you start and finish on your own and then you bring your conclusions but a long book where you can follow the story and use others contributions to enrich your own reading before it is finish.
    I already congratulated Texas. You both are the parents of this thread :D.
    My apology was not really because of entering in here but for interrupting a conversation when I'm not going to participate in the main activity. I felt like an elefant in a garage.
    And, (please read this thoroughly),[OCULTAR] if you call me again Ms Querol I will never ever come again or if I do I may call you Mr. Teacher (I will thik of something worse but you play with advantage as I ignore your forname):D:p
    [/OCULTAR]
  • MenziesMenzies San juan de la Cruz XVI
    editado octubre 2010
    Alright, sorry Malube. It wasn't my intention to offend you in any given sense. Well I never! You know, I just wouldn't. By the way, if you ever want to mock my name, just for you to know, it's Edward :P.
  • GileblitGileblit Fernando de Rojas s.XV
    editado octubre 2010
    We read "The black cat" then?

    What about 10 days to finish it?
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